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Poster: bluedevil Date: Aug 16, 2010 12:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

And Phil had this to say:

Phil Lesh
***1/5/06***
I had two conversations with Cameron Sears, our CEO at GDP, regarding Archive, starting when our material first showed up there. I told Cameron that I was fine having the audience tapes up there, but that he should talk to everyone, including Bob Hunter and John Barlow, regarding the soundboards. A year later when I had not heard anything about the boards, I mentioned to Cameron that I felt by not doing anything we were making a decision about the boards and that I was fine with that. Again I urged him to talk to everyone. I was caught by complete surprise when, right before Thanksgiving, the recordings were pulled. I feel that Bobby was not updated properly and unfairly took most of the heat. A lot of our business disagreements are the result of poor communication from advisors. Bobby is my brother and I love him unconditionally; he is a very generous man, and was unfairly judged regarding the Archive issue. -Philzone

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Aug 16, 2010 3:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

I remember this and what is kind of annoying is that Phil never says that he was against what happened, just that he was surprised by it. Barlow was the only one who came out against what happened. Everyone else sat on the fence and seem very happy with the compromise that resulted in the current agreement with IA yet Bob still gets the heat for allowing us to listen to all the music we could ever hear.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 16, 2010 10:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

Well, I heard stronger language on Phil's part from the friend that coached his kid...he said a bunch of stuff about how great LMA was, and it should stand as it had for yrs, and so on...I think he back peddled later, but I still have a distinct impression of Bob having poorer pub rel's skills than Phil...that's all I've been trying to convey to JOTS; no judgment on it being their $ but I think there are good and bad ways to present it...

This post was modified by William Tell on 2010-08-17 05:14:55

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Aug 17, 2010 3:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

In this case it was easy to have better pub relationship skills, right? Bob made the first move Phil just had to respond diplomatically. Wasn't it also Bob who had to let the people go from GDP right around then? Not a great time to be Bob. I am just not sure why it matters whether Bob has good PR skills or not. Doesn't he have enough goodwill in the bank that even if he says something that is not well-constructed PR, the fans wont turn on him instantly. You think of the scene in FE and I think of the end of Bertha on 8-6-71 when Bob tells the taper where he should move if he wants to get a really good recording. In the end, Bob's only bad PR move is that he isn't Jerry.

As for Phil, he did say that he used the archive for research when he was writing his book so I am sure he was disappointed when everything was pulled and there was no streaming.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 17, 2010 6:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

Yeah, I guess it's partly the issue with any public fig; what have you done for me lately?

This one was such a loaded issue too; though all of us might agree with the "we had it free for so long" why complain, I do understand those that view it differently.

Put it all together and it was a powder keg, and Bob stepped in, as you say, while others hung back.

But, on other fronts, you know the often shown photo of Bob's grimace while giving the finger? I am sure there are photos of Phil doing the same, but I've never seen em. Is it cause folks hate Bob and pounce? Or, is Bob more of a jerk? I am just asking...

I would say in the Bay Area folks did really feel Bob was originally a really nice, sweet kid, but as he aged (just like me) he got to be a bit cranky (when they met him, etc). Phil seemed to develop more grace and humility. Again, these are second hand observations. But, I do believe there is a very small potential kernal of "truth" to the underlying likes and dislikes...And that Jerry may have just always been given a pass.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 17, 2010 9:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

"In the end, Bob's only bad PR move is that he isn't Jerry."

I think that is it EXACTLY. Some people are simply mad at Bob because Jerry's dead.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Aug 17, 2010 10:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

I was resisting adding to this bloated discussion but I think you're right. I think there are more than a few morons around who would quite happily sacrifice Weir if they thought it would get Garcia back. Symptomatic of this is the whole idiotic nonsense that gets spouted about Weir's beard - how DARE he wear a beard? Is he trying to be JERRY? Sacrilege! Burn him! It makes me spit, frankly.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 17, 2010 11:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

Morons is right.
Any time the discussion turns to facial hair, you know it is not going to be rational.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 17, 2010 11:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

I think Rob just called me bloated...damn; how can he know from so far away? This is exactly how rumors get started.

I know how Bob feels now, and I am not going to take it lying down.

As for my facial hair, I do talk about it, but only in the third person ("look what my beard did during dinner, dear"...which only a wife with a bearded spouse will understand). So, you are probably right--nothing rational about it.

Finally, I hadn't considered the "transference hypothesis" (survivors guilt, whatever) that folks hate Bob cause Jerry died and he lived...interesting; I do maintain that a smallish Jerry could be hiding in Bob's current beard, however impolite that may sound.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Aug 17, 2010 11:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

You mean your beard tried to eat your dinner before it made it to your mouth?

Did you know that Frank Beard is the only member of ZZ Top who doesn't have one?

Did you know there's even a beards.org? Don't look - you'll feel your lifeforce slipping away...

Did you know I'm a cantankerous bastard with increasingly low tolerance levels for beardy blatherings?

Did you know you can safely ignore my intemperate fulminations?

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 17, 2010 11:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

"You mean your beard tried to eat your dinner before it made it to your mouth?"

Please - can we not get too much more explicit about this :)

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Aug 17, 2010 11:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

I fear this will be another launching pad for beard jokes, many of them involving Chuck Norris.

As for the subject of why Bob gets repeatedly thrown under the bus, I think the whole Jerry Died First thing has some merit. Unfortunate, but human nature is more often reflexive and not always as morally upright as we would like to believe.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 17, 2010 11:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

Now I was trying to resist actually using the phrase "survivor's guilt" - and you've even upped the ante with "transference"!! :)

I do have a heavily bearded spouse, actually but now that you mention it he doesn't talk about his beard.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 16, 2010 2:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

Yep; that reinforces the perception I think (ie, ironically, Phil had to say that cause even though it might not be fair, he understood why Bob was taking the heat, and he wasn't).

In sum, though, I think everyone forms an opinion of their fav stars, and we are "lucky" to have had more interactions, first or second hand with "ours" over 40 yrs than with say, Michael Jackson or Kobe. And, I think there's no getting around the following, right or wrong:

Folks (heads) generally think of Phil as a nicer guy, now, than Bob. Maybe based on bad secondhand info, etc., etc., but wouldn't you agree, in a superficial "do you like your heros?", that would be the majority vote of a given group of heads?

That's my sense. Trivial, but perhaps true. That's why I sorta expect Bob to take some shit; Kobe too...Kareem as well. But not so much Steve Nash or Leo Kotke.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 16, 2010 6:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

I guess Bob can take it.
If Bob were really such a prick as he's made out to be, would Jerry have loved him so much?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 16, 2010 8:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

Better not ask Jerry's daughters that...

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 17, 2010 4:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? Or did?

Okay. I hereby vow not to take part in any further "Is Bob a jerk" threads!

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Aug 16, 2010 8:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? -LEO!

Just an aside on Leo - he pissed me off royally.

I've bought his discs for years (vinyl, own 'em all) and saw him in concert 3 times. Then he released one album on CD that could not be ripped! Encoded with anti-piracy encryption. He lost more than one fan right then. He failed to see the writing on the wall. I give props to the GD for satisfying, in their own stumbling, inimitable way, the expectations of their fans - knowing that the scene was far beyond manageability.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 16, 2010 8:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? -LEO!

Damn...shoulda known he'd be on the outs with someone! I won't defend him; now, has anyone seen Steve Nash near an elem school?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Aug 16, 2010 8:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Isn't it clear Bob and Phil differ on all this? -LEO!

Yep, Nash was betting Lance Stephenson a joint for every 3 pointer he could hit from behind the line in the gym at Saint Anthony's .

Kryie Irving. I'm telling you now, Kyrie Irving....